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Photography > Large Format Photo Equipment > Re: Crown vs. S...
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Re: Crown vs. Speed Graphics [was Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?]

by "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mar 2, 2008 at 05:58 PM

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:47cb51f0$0$15624$822641b3@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 3/2/2008 3:35 PM Richard Knoppow spake thus:
>
>>     The usual reason for rejecting the Speed Graphic is 
>> weight, the Crown is lighter and has a shallower box. 
>> However I do find the focal plane shutter to be useful 
>> especially for barrel type lenses. Also, Crown Graphics, 
>> originally the economy model, are often more expensive 
>> than the Speed Graphic on the used market.
>>     Either will give you a taste for LF although they 
>> have very limited movements and limited bellows draw. 
>> Graphic cameras were intended to be hand held and offer a 
>> way of getting a large negative for situations where a 
>> tripod can not be used.
>
> (Like that famous picture of Jack Ruby shooting Oswald, 
> where at least one handheld Graflex is visible.)
>
> Since we're on the subject, yes, I should have mentioned 
> about the barrel lenses, though these are more rare than 
> lenses with shutters.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. I didn't know that Crowns go for more than Speeds. Is 
> this because people like the former better, or for other 
> reasons (see question #2)?
>
> 2. Do Speed Graphics typically have working focal-plane 
> shutters? I would have thought that because of the 
> complexity of this mechanism, it might be likely to fail 
> in cameras of this age. (I've never even seen a Speed 
> Graphic up close and personal.)


    I don't know what prices are like now but a few years 
ago Crown Graphics were going for more than Speed Graphics.
    One has to check the shutter, maybe even to make sure 
its still there (some idiots like to remove them). Actually, 
the Graflex shutter mechanism is very simple and not easily 
broken. The shutter curtain in the later cameras appears to 
be made of some synthetic with quite long life. Usually they 
need only to be lubricated.
    I don't remember if the Graflex site has a diagram of 
the shutter. If so it will make things obvious.
    The first shutter used by Folmer & Schwing on the 
Graflex SLR was a self capping shutter but it proved too 
elaborate and not reliable so, within some very short time, 
they came up with the simplified shutter used forever after. 
This consists of a rubberized cloth curtain with five slits 
of varying length on it. The curtain runs between two spring 
loaded rollers, quite similar to the rollers used for window 
shades. The lower roller has a spring which can be adjusted 
by winding it. This changes the travel time of the shutter. 
The upper roller has a fixed spring with enough tension to 
maintain the curtain taught. The speed is set by winding the 
curtain up to the upper roller to the slit desired. The 
spring on the lower roller is wound to the desired tension. 
There is a chart on the camera showing the shutter speeds 
resulting from each combination of slit width and spring 
tension. There is enough blank space between each slit and 
the next to cap the film. When the shutter is tripped the 
curtain winds down one slit and stops. You must then put the 
dark slide back in the holder because when the shutter is 
wound up again it pulls the slit back over the focal plane. 
If you trip the shutter a second time without winding it 
back the _next_ slit will go over the film.
    Because the curtain accelerates as it travels the speeds 
are not constant from top to bottom. The amount of change 
varies with the tension and slit size being greatest for the 
highest speeds where it can be nearly 2:1 over the travel. 
At one time F&S advertized this as an advantage for Graflex 
cameras because it would darken the sky in a landscape. The 
last of these shutters, the one used on 4x5 Pacemaker Speed 
Graphics, had a flywheel to control the speeds on the low 
range which resulted in considerably more uniform exposure.
    The _effective_ speed of a focal plane shutter is a 
function of the distance between the shutter slit and the 
film and the focal length of the lens. Actually the angle of 
the cone of light emitted by the lens so it varies with the 
focus. In the Graflex/Speed Graphic shutter the efficiency 
is not very high so there is considerable variation plus the 
higher speeds can not be directly measured with a shutter 
tester. The speeds will read low. The speed can be read more 
accurately by adjusting the intensity of the light at the 
tester so that its just one stop more than the point at 
which the tester stops counting. One then reads the light at 
the half intensity points. For Speed Graphics the measured 
speed of the highest speed, 1/1000 second will be only about 
1/800th if this method is not used. I've found several SGs 
where the shutter tension adjustment had been wound very 
tight to get the top speed to read 1/1000 on a total open 
time tester. This, of course, will throw off all the speeds.
    The shutter in the Pacemaker Speed Graphic and the 
Super-D Graflex are pretty accurate, most of the 25 speeds 
listed on the charts for other Graphic and Graflex cameras 
have a good deal of wishful thinking in them.
    Like 35mm rangefinder cameras its possible to burn a 
hole in the focal plane shutter by pointing the camera at 
the sun with the shutter wound.
    Note also that careful adjustment of the stops for the 
shutter is necessary to avoid shutter bounce at the end of 
travel. This can lead to a strip of double exposure at the 
bottom of the negative. It is a more difficult problem in 
Graflex cameras with rotating backs because of the about 20% 
longer shutter travel needed to cover the film lengthwise.
    Once a Graphic or Graflex FP shutter is set up and lubed 
correctly it won't need attention for many years.
    There have been more elaborate FP shutters on 4x5 
cameras. One is the shutter found on some Busch Pressman 
cameras. These, I think were intended to meet the military 
spec for the Speed Graphic. These are self-capping shutters 
cut out the light when they are re-wound) and have more 
accurate and uniform speeds. I've never seen a drawing of 
the mechanism and have, in fact, only ever seen one camera 
with this shutter. They were advertized along around the mid 
1950's. The other elaborate shutter is the one used on the 
ICA, later Zeiss-Ikon Mirroflex. This is a gear train 
regulated shutter with some resemblance to the shutter in 
the Contax camera. Also self-capping and quite accurate. The 
main problem with these is rubber rot necessitating 
replacement of the shutter curtains.
     I am quite sure this is much more than anyone ever 
wanted to know about these shutters.



-- 
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk@[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 




 33 Posts in Topic:
Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs>   2008-02-27 07:33:56 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
David Nebenzahl <nobod  2008-02-27 16:48:28 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs>   2008-02-28 11:02:29 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Nicholas O. Lindan&  2008-02-29 08:50:32 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs>   2008-02-29 09:01:28 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-02-28 01:20:07 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs>   2008-02-28 10:49:48 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-02-28 09:19:47 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs>   2008-02-28 15:06:41 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-02-28 18:27:00 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs>   2008-02-28 21:36:36 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-02-29 00:21:55 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Ken Hart" <  2008-02-29 12:43:25 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
<jjs>   2008-02-29 12:32:48 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Nicholas O. Lindan&  2008-02-29 14:10:33 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Ken Hart" <  2008-03-01 00:29:34 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-03-01 07:52:58 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-02-29 11:12:38 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Nicholas O. Lindan&  2008-02-29 16:08:21 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Ken Hart" <  2008-03-01 00:17:16 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Ken Hart" <  2008-03-01 00:29:37 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-03-01 07:33:03 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
jch <jch@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-03-01 22:49:52 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-03-01 15:08:26 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
jch <jch@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-03-02 07:22:28 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
David Nebenzahl <nobod  2008-03-02 00:10:48 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
jch <jch@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-03-02 19:39:49 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-03-02 15:35:15 
Crown vs. Speed Graphics [was Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid a
David Nebenzahl <nobod  2008-03-02 17:20:36 
Re: Crown vs. Speed Graphics [was Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rap
"Richard Knoppow&quo  2008-03-02 17:58:33 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
David Nebenzahl <nobod  2008-03-02 16:29:24 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
Richard Knoppow <dickb  2008-03-05 05:44:03 
Re: Zeiss Ikonta Shutter - Rapid and Synchro - both have flash?
Richard Knoppow <dickb  2008-03-08 05:19:43 

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tan12V112 Sun Jul 6 17:09:50 CDT 2008.