Re: really no purpose anymore for traditional films (negative or diapositve) (by 2006) ?

babelfish <babelfish2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> 
> You're assuming a lot. These profiles don't represent richer gamuts at
all. 
> They're made through the use of more color patches in the profile
targets. 
> One makes a profile by first printing a target of anywhere from about
300 to 
> 1400 or more color patches and the results are read by a
spetrophotometer 
> into software that builds the profile. But using more patches does NOT 
> increase the dmax or the gamut of the device being profiled. It only
gives 
> the profiling software more information to go on to build a more
accurate 
> profile, and this may not even be the result. Simply having more patches
to 
> profile doesn't even necessarily result in a better profile as it can 
> increase the numbmer of spikes and erroneous data. The printer needs to
be 
> linearized to behave well first, and a number of other things, including
the 
> averaging of multiple runs through the spectro, make for smoother and
more 
> accurate profiles. But none of these things give you greater gamut or
better 
> blacks any more than measuring something in millemeters rather than
inches 
> makes something larger.
>

Dry Creek has a good reputation, which is why [I presume] that Costco is
using
them.  So, you didn't answer my question.  Did you run the test [where you
determined DMAX numbers] based on a print using an older profile or the
newer
profile?  I am just curious what those results might look like.  
 
> We've been at the cutting edge of color management, making profiles and 
> profile targets for many years. Unlike Drycreek, we don't sell profiles
on 
> the cheap because we know that to do it right it takes more work than
people 
> are typically willing to pay for, so we leave it up to highly paid 
> consultants who do it right. I know that it would cost thousands to
properly 
> color manage each location for Costco rather than the nearly free 
> self-promotional service that Drycreek provided to them and other bottom

> feeders. To give you an idea of my experience in this, we're the sole 
> producer the coveted HCT color targets for Hutchcolor Consulting, used
for 
> high end scanners which sell around the world for up to $600 apiece.
Color 
> management training by Hutchcolor sells for thousands per day and Costco

> people never got anything like this. We do high end drum scanning, fine
art 
> reproduction and retouching for ad agencies, pharmaceuticals and
museums. I 
> know what I'm talking about where it comes to color management. It's
hard to 
> not sound like a snob here, but my fur goes up when I see so many
gullible 
> people buying into stuff they know little about because it's packaged
well 
> at an attractive price.
>

Like I said, I will give your product a try and compare [visually] for
myself.
I will try high contrast and low contrast images, as well as shadow and
bright
images and of course a nicely color saturated image.
 
>> Still, I will be glad to do side by side comparisons pretty soon.  I
value 
>> the
>> quality over the price, in general.  I think you are likely correct,
but
>> Costco does offer an incredible value for a color profiled option, and
I 
>> must
>> do the due diligence to rule them in or out.
> 
> There's no question that Costco and their ilk are cheap and a good
bargain 
> for many people - kind of like fast food and certainly better than doing

> your own printing at home at this stage. However, don't be fooled into 
> thinking that they can perform quality work or even custom operations.
Their 
> expertise and equipment options are severely limited by design in order
to 
> make money at price levels near the cost of materials alone. Anyway, the

> cost of doing quality imaging is in the expertise alone, not the
machine. 
> Would you trust someone who does accounting for the price of pencils?
It's 
> insulting. 

I am not arguing that your product may be better, however, you have an
interest in [us readers] believing this.  To me, the proof will be in the
prints and I will have to try you both side by side.

BTW ... Costco only offers a single paper, a Fuji Crystal Archive paper in
glossy and lustre versions.

-- 
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68  00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0